Hi, I remember reading some years ago, how the flex in the rod tip, dictates the size of the casting loop, is this true? If it is, then why don't we fish rods, using fast tip actions for smaller loops?

Regards

Smudger564

The simple answer, is no, rod action doesn't effectr loop size, or cast quality, ity's the individual weilding the rod that effects all that. Having said that, it's not quite simple, but don't think a small tight loop is the bee all and end all, sometimes a large open loop is what you need to achieve for some application.

Loop size is down to the path the tip traces during the cast. If you imagine looking at a cast side on, from the start position to the stop if the tip follows as near a straight line as possible you will have tight loops. The more the tip follows a curving arc the more open loops, if it dips below the straight line path you get a tailing loop.

As a rod bends you need to match the size of the casting arc to how much bend there is to get a straight line with the rod tip. It is possible with any rod, a stiffer rod simply means you use a smaller stroke and casting arc for a given length of line.

If you are interested, do some reading on the Sexyloops - the best fly fishing and fly casting instruction seven days a week site and you will find all the info to every single one of your questions, a bit of reading will really pad out your knowledge, some of the articles are very useful

Er, sorry to disagree but rod action does affect loop size, massively so in extreme examples. If you stopped the rod on your forward cast in the identical place with a tip action rod as opposed to a mid action rod, the tip action rod would have the smaller loop as the mid action rod would follow through more on the stop opening up the loop. Do the same with a through action rod and the difference will be obvious. Ultimately however it's the user who dictates the loop shape as most casters don't have good enough loop control to utilise the difference in rod action, so it's a moot point anyway.

As for why we don't all use tip action rods, it's because they're not so fishing friendly as mid action rods, less give so less shock absorbtion more snapped tippets etc etc. Plus, they're less user friendly so harder to cast for the average guy.

A good casting rod doesn't automatically make a good fishing rod.

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Isn't what you are saying to do with tip path though? I did not mention counterflex however, so yogood point.

Stiff rods can also cover a lot of faults too! For joe public who uses the same casting stroke for a different stroke then of course the loops will be radically different. Someone who knows what they are doing though will be able to achieve relatively close results in loop size across a range of rods. I've done it, whole stack of rods with different actions, alter the stroke and hey presto a nice tight loop on any. A stiffer rod is much easier to cast tight loops with obviously, smaller movement for any given cast. I think we are agreeing, albeit it a few twists and things in there.

Andrew Toft was playing with one of my new loop rods on Thursday there, arguably pretty soft in the tip compared to my hydros, he was throwing loops with the top leg no more than an inch off the rod leg. That to me = tip path. I don't bother thinking of rod actions, I think of tip path, all you have to do is alter what you're doing to get the tip doing what you want. As you say though, the caster is all!

To answer your question ,its the stop of the rod that forms the loop,, some people cast tight loops with a softer rod the same as a fast rod, its all in the stop ,drop the rod tip low on the forward cast, non loop, stop high with the right stop, tight loop,simple

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While a tip action rod may possibly make it easier to cast a narrow loop the ability to cast a narrow loop is dependant on the caster and angle of power application in relation to rod tip deflection.Does rod flex effect loop size?It can,but ultimately it is the caster who will alter the loop size which can be done even after the stop and counterflex of the rod tip.
That said it is not only the rod flex that can alter the loop but more so the recovery rate of the rod a (soft rod) with poor recovery will be ineffective(although it would be still possible to cast a tight loop) but a tip actioned/or progressive actioned rod with fast recovery would make it much easier.

Hi, You mention deflection. Surely the less deflection the tighter the loop, regardless of experience.

Regards

Smudger564

It is not just as straight forward as that because it depends where the power is applied and the angle of deflection is, Hence the reason it is ultimately the caster that dictates the size of the loop.As Darren mentioned if the two rods were stopped in the same place the tip actioned rod would have less deflection and a progressive rod more ,that is why adjustment during casting would have to be made.

A good caster will get a good loop with any rod, by adjusting the cast to take the rod action into account. A Rubbish caster won't get a good loop regardless of the action of the rod. Some actions are easier to get certain loops, sure, but at the end of the day, to get a tight loop, you are still going to need to know how to cast the rod. It's difficult to get a nice tight loop by accident.