Hi ive just started out, sum of the time wen im casting my leader gets fully tangled up in itself and its a pain in the **** like, is this just normal?? or would it be my inexperience of casting?

also when im double hauling wen i do my final haul to cast out it always seems to tangle also?? any suggestions?

cheers jwelsh

You need lessons son. School lessons first then get some casting lessons.

Could be that bleedy reel

Chris.

Tangle during a haul is likely a tailing loop.

There are many reason why a leader and fly line tangle. It could be that there is not enough energy in the cast to extend the leader and it collapses on itself. It could be repeated oval casting motions that twist the line and leader. It could that the backcast drops too low before you begin the forward cast so you end up a tailing loop. And so forth.

With beginner it is likely several casting faults combined so the tangles get even worse than with a single fault.

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Silver Creek- "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"....Szent-Gyorgy

yea the loop folds back on itself if you know what i mean, and that makes it catch on itself.

It's not normal.(but is for beginners) you should learn to cast without tangles before you get into the more advanced Double haul.

Jim

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The Fishermans Friend is the Flirty Fly,Fickle Food for Fleeting Fish.

its not your look john? you need a bit of help. do you know any fly anglers near you. so they could help.i and others would help if you were close or at the same water as they are one day and would take a look at your casting so they can help.its no good telling you on here really. buy the sound of things you need real help.hands on help. lessons would work its a dear do though and dont worry about your spelling on here we are anglers, were not on english studies. i dont check my spelling when i text or post on here. see alot of people dont now. alot of us like me post by phone and if i havent got the right light i cant see properly so i make mistake somtimes. well i wish i could help more. the next time im out fishing will be 12 nov so if your in the area let me now thornton res.

phil

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stop buying bottled water we have,nt got enuff to fish in now so stop it get the water companies to do there job and clean the water every where!!!!

Good to see you learnt yours...

That is a tailing loop where the rolling end of the line falls below the standing end of the line that is attached to the rod tip. There are several causes but the most common is a sudden application of power that causes a dip in the rod tip path. Another cause is a high rod tip position at the stop. Another is the" creep and jab" caused by attempting a longer cast than usual.

There are many causes and if you don't have a experienced caster that can tell you how to correct your casting, do a video from the side of your casting arm showing the rod and line as you cast.

More than you ever wanted or cared to know about tailing loops, casting and wind knots in detail:

To understand what causes a tailing loop and a "wind or casting knot", one must know what a normal casting loop looks like. A normal loop has a leg that is following or traveling forward and a standing leg that is stationary and attached to the rod tip. Normally the two legs are separated by the width of the loop and usually in an overhead cast, the upper leg is the traveling leg and the lower leg is the stationary leg.

A tailing loop or "wind knot" occurs because the following leg (upper leg) of the casting loop falls below the standing leg (lower leg) AND the legs are in the same casting plane. BOTH situations must occur, that is the following leg must cross the standing leg and the legs must be in the same plane. A wind knot cannot occur if the two legs of fly line are in different casting planes.

Example - By using an elliptical casting motion, the back cast and forward cast are made in different planes and this separates the two legs of the loop formation. Even if the upper and lower legs of the loop formation cross vertically, they cannot catch on each other because they are separated horizontally in space; they are in different planes.

To see how this works, make a side arm back cast and then an overhead forward cast and you will see than the two legs of the loop are in different planes. Even if the upper leg of the loop drops down on the forward stroke, there is no lower leg of the loop to get tangle with because there is a horizontal separation of the two legs of the loop.

This type of cast is known as the Belgian Cast. Because this cast separates the planes of the back cast and forward cast, it is an excellent cast to prevent tangles not only for tailing loops but also when casting multiple flies or heavily weighted flies. It is also an excellent wind cast when your back is to the wind and it often called the Belgian Wind Cast for this reason.

However, the elliptical motion also causes the fly line to twist counter clockwise for a right handed caster. By casting in an ellipse we are moving the rod tip in a circle for each cast and this twists the fly line. If you always use the elliptical cast, you'll need to allow the line to untwist every so often.

If we do cast in the same plane as in the usual overhead cast, wind or casting knots occur because of the crossing of the two legs of the cast. What causes the two legs to cross?

Well, there are many reasons which I have mentioned. The fly line follows the rod tip. The rod tip follows the path of the hand except for one change. As we apply power to the rod, the rod flexes, and when it flexes, the effective rod length shortens so that the rod tip comes closer to the casting hand. If we move our casting hand in a straight line, we are not compensating for the shortening of the rod tip. The rod tip will travel not in a straight path but in a concave path as it flexes and straightens during the straight line casting motion.

This concave path causes a dip in the path of the following leg of the fly line. At the stop, the rod tip straightens and the standing line will be above the traveling line, and as the two lines cross, you get a tailing loop. So one cause is a straight line casting motion of the casting hand. The casting hand must move in a convex path to compensate for rod shortening. The bending of the rod must be done smoothly to mirror the path of the rod hand.

A second cause is a sudden application of power too early in the casting stroke - this is often called a jab. Again these sudden shock to the rod causes an acute bend and a dip in the rod tip path. The most common cause of this is when we try to cast farther than we commonly cast, and we give the rod that extra punch at the wrong time. The application of power must be smooth so that there is a progressive bend that we can compensate for.

The third cause is extending the hand forward in a straight line at the end of the cast, especially if you extend the rod tip up because you think a high rod tip will gain you more distance. Casters will do this because they think you can get more distance if you shoot line from a higher rod tip position. However this will cause a tailing loop and a casting knot.

What these casters do not realize is that when a rod straightens after the stop, the "effective rod length" (the distance of the rod tip from the hand) lengthens. If you don't tip the rod tip down to compensate for this rod lengthening, the rod tip will be higher than the trailing fly line causing a tailing loop and casting knot. You need to tip the rod tip down after the stop to allow the fly line to clear the rod tip.

Another cause is a poor backcast and poor timing. If you start the backcast too early, you may not have enough loading power to complete the forward cast so your compensate with a jab which causes a tailing loop. If you start too late, the line may have fallen too low and you will get a tailing loop from the low following line.

An article in Fly Fisherman Magazine by Jim McLennan's titled "The Creep & Jab" in the March 2008 issue gives another common cause. If a caster creeps after the backcast, they will often jab to compensate for the creep. See a explanation here:

McLennan Fly Fishing ~ Jim & Lynda McLennan Alberta ~ McLennan Fly Fishing

There are a lot of other causes best explained here with video:

Tailing Loops - description and cure

Tailing Loops 2 - description and analysis

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Silver Creek- "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"....Szent-Gyorgy

I personally wouldn't put this as a cause. Sure you can avoid a catastrophic tail by ripping the loop open (by lowering the stopping point) but all you're doing is attempting to hide the fault that you've made earlier in the casting stroke.